Episode 67: Hanzi Freinacht on Metamodernism


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Today’s guest is a deep thinker who has managed to remove himself from academic postmodernism and crafted what he calls Metamodernism as a “next step” for humanity.

Hanzi Freinacht is a political philosopher, historian & sociologist, author of The Listening Society, Nordic Ideology, and the upcoming book The 6 Hidden Patterns of World History. 

As a writer, Hanzi combines in-depth knowledge of several sciences and disciplines and offers maps of our time and the human condition with his characteristically accessible, poetic and humorous writing style – challenging the reader’s perspective of herself and the world. He epitomizes much of the metamodern philosophy and can be considered a personification of this strand of thought.

In this interview we talk about: 

  • Hanzi’s six types of politics
  • The need to adopt a more holistic, or integral, or metamodern worldview
  • How our subjective experiences are an important part of the metamodern perspective
  • The difference between light depth and dark depth:  And why light depth is a profoundly playful position and dark depth is profound seriousness. And why both of these are true

We also discuss: 

  • Why you can “out-depth” your partner and what to do about it.
  • The cosmo-erotic relationship to the artist
  • The importance of Integrating the part of yourself that’s seeking a specific level of depth from a romantic partner
  • Why not all people can become metamodernists 

Note: This interview took place in July 2020.

If you are feeling challenged in your role as a leader seeking your role in this new leadership paradigm, my 1:1 mentorship program may be right for you.  I invite you to reach out to me to learn more and see if you may be a good fit for this kind of support. 

Enjoy the show!



Hanzi’s book, Nordic Ideology

Hanzi’s book, The Listening Society

Jordan Hall’s Deep Code

The song Una Mattina by Ludovico Einaudi

Spiral Dynamics 

Enjoy my free guided meditation

Join my Telegram channel 



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